9/12/18 E55 How to Increase your Brain Capacity - BDNF

Who knew 4 letters could pack so much power? Today the guys are talking about BDNF - which essentially means (literal) brain power. Eric has been on this bandwagon for a while, and after learning more about it, it's pretty easy to see why. And Eric even gets a little personal in this one...

What does BDNF mean? And why does it matter?

Turns out you CAN regenerate brain cells (mom was wrong).

Eric shares the personal, and heartbreaking story that led him to this study.

How movement affects our happiness.

BDNF and it's effect on diabetes (and just about everything else).

The genetic mutations that can affect your BDNF production. (Up to 1/3 of people have it!)

Using movement before anti-depressants?

And obtaining that exercise high!

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Eric: 00:00 The bdnf is the most talked about and most studied the most basically probably critical one of the neurotrophins that we have. 

Chad: 00:10 They say journey begins in a single step or in my case, one less piece of bread. 

Chad: 00:20 My name is Chad and I'm your test subject. I have sought out an expert in the field of nutrition and fitness. Well, I hoped it helped me feel better. They call him the biohacker, but I call them parent. I hope you'll join me on a path that leads you and I to optimal fitness as we live our lives and ketosis. This is the life and Ketosis podcast, a biohackers guide to optimal body performance. 

Chad: 00:53 Hello everyone. My name is Chad and this is my quest to achieving optimal body performance with the man that can get me there. The biohacker himself. Mr Eric Bischof every episode. Eric gives us his crazy intense sciencey knowledge and I break it down with my non crazy guy take as we explore the principles of ketogenics and KPR performance training. Whether you're just looking for a way to feel better or if you're an elite athlete looking for that edge. We're here to help and today we're talking about bdnf. Did I get it right? And uh, yeah. Or we're going to talk a little bit about what that is, what it means, but how are you eric? 

Eric: 01:32 What does it stand for Chad? 

Chad: 01:35 Brain Deficiency. Neuro. Functional. 

Eric: 01:39 Pretty close. 

Eric: 01:42 Well, it's kind of funny, that you've heard me say how many times. In fact my kids are like, dad, this has been going on for like eight years. You say that Bdnf one more time and I pushed it, pushed it, pushed it for so many years and I think my, even my clients are tired of hearing it, but I know. No, I'm doing pretty good. How are you and where are you? I know you're somewhere. I know. 

Chad: 02:10 We're um, we're still in the Pacific northwest. In Seattle? Yeah. Seattle. Cool. 

Eric: 02:16 Oh man, that's awesome. And you're in your little studio right at the back of the bus. That's right. No, that's cool. Cool. Talk about bdnf. What bdnf, what's the acronym? Brain derived neurotrophic factor. Okay. And it's something that I have been into probably a seven, eight years for sure. And it's probably one of the most, if I look at all my piles around here, the bdnf stack is up there, the biggest with sulforaphane and ketosis and a few other ones that I have. Um, it's, it's something that I personally really got into it and what it is, it's an neurotrophin okay. And what neurotrophins are those are growth factors. So we're getting into neurons now. Okay. And so they are extremely important obviously. And there's about, I think there's four. I'm going off memory now. Uh, we have the ngf, that's the nerd nerve growth factor. That's one of the neurotrophins end, the BDNF, which we're talking about. And then I think there's, there's a couple others and t three and t four, and then maybe there's some others, but those are the four that, that are mainly with, with, with, with, with humans. And I think that ngf was discovered in the fifties and then in the eighties, they, the second one was the bdnf we're talking about then nineties, I think the, the other two, the neurotrophin three and four came in. So these are really, really important neurotrophins. So. So basically what we're getting to is the function survival of neurons, and you always say, when I talk about movement, movement, movement about neuronal growth, so we're talking about the function of neurons to development that maintenance, repair, synaptic growth, a neuron growth, a regeneration, et cetera. So it is very vital. And in, in, you know, we've always talked about when you age your year, we always been taught that your brain cells are limited and you have so many. And then as you age, they, they just die. 

Chad: 04:37 Yeah, that's, I was going to say that. I mean we, we've talked about it on this podcast many times, but I grew up with my mom saying, you know, you kill brain cells. That's it. You're done so quick. Well yeah, that was always the argument. Don't drink it because your brain cells and they're gone once they're gone. So still don't drink in high school. I'm going to stand by that. But now you're talking about regeneration. 

Eric: 05:06 Yeah. Yeah. And that's the exciting thing about it is on, on, on these neurotrophins are basically chemicals obviously. And so it, you know, a synaptic, genesis dendright oh, genesis neurogenesis, which is all creation of new. Okay. And so the BDNF is the most talked about and most studied the most basically probably critical one of the neurotrophins that we have. And that's why I got into this probably about 10 years ago and I started reading books and, and one of the books I think is a spark was one of the ones I looked at and talked about this bdnf and he, I think he used the one that referred it to Raty John Raty to miracle grow like a fertilizer for, for, for neuron growth. 

Eric: 05:58 But then I jumped into all these other books. I, I went into deep deep study the mind and the brain book, brain renovation, brainspotting brain block, train your mind, train your body, all these brain books. I just, I really, I really got into the depth of praying and, and, and, and kind of Chad, you know, in thinking about it that the motivation for me to do that was something that I didn't know if I talk about it or not, but a real personal basically I was going to ask you how, how did you get so interested in the brain and its regeneration of cells and how that relates to movement? Yeah. It just, I just dove into it had, I mean, I went crazy with it and I guess it was due to my um, uh, my, my daughter a Jorey. Uh, she's, uh, she was a senior in high school and I guess this is what got me into the brain so heavy, um, I guess I can share this. Um, uh, she, um, just one night a beautiful girl, a senior in high school, straight a student scholarship offers already at the school that she went to and I thought everything. She was my fifth child and I thought everything was just great. I had really good, really good kids when she was a really good kid and I got one of those dreaded phone calls two o clock in the morning from the hospital saying your daughters in here in intensive in not an emergency she was trying to kill herself and I just totally blown away. Now, I don't know if you've heard this. I think it was mentioned once before, if we talked about it. I'm trying to remember Chad with. 

Chad: 07:52 No, well I mean I knew of something of a story, but I didn't know this related to your inspiration for some of this brain stuff. 

Eric: 08:01 Yeah. And what happened? I ended up, you know, just rushing to the hospital of course and there was my daughter in a fetal position on a, on a gurney, but anyway, it was just, it was brutal. It was just something that I was just totally taken aback by just this is my kid. I asked how you doing, how you doing? And I'm an on hands dad. I thought it was and I missed it I guess, and she'd always say I'm fine. I'm fine. She played rugby shoes into real heavy sports and, and academic and, and I think what if I remember the trigger that got me into this whole brain thing and I went really, really deep is they admitted her into the psych ward obviously, and I'm not familiar with that. And it was actually a three or four day and I remember going that morning to see her Uh, and I stayed all night. Then I went home, showered, and I came back because he had to get her into the ward and I remember getting there and I went to her room. They let me in and through locked doors, et cetera. And there's a lot of kids in there. And they told me I went to her room and she wasn't there. And I said, I asked the attendant, I said where is Jorey Bischof and she said, oh, she's down the hall. She's in a class. And I remember, and I walked down. I just went down the hall to see where she was and just kind of see if I could see her. And I remember this like yesterday, um, she was in a classroom and there was a window into the hallway and I guess I can share all this but sorry guys. But anyway, I'll share real quick. 

Eric: 09:33 Um, and it was a window into the classroom and I just leaning there watching my daughter and there she was in and I've always seen this on tv and you know, shows showing somebody in the psych ward, they're in there drawing pictures. And I remember just watching my daughters just drawing a picture and I swore then that leaning against a wall, I said, I will find out what's going on in her head. And that's how it started. And that's honest to gosh, truth. That's how it started. And from then on that's I dove into the brain because I, it just broke my heart. Yeah. 

Chad: 10:12 Let me just say for a second. Um, well yeah, first let us know where Jorey is now and, and uh, to give us some 

Eric: 10:22 pretty odd, uh, now she graduated this last, um, April, she's going to Grad school at Fort Collins for occupational therapy. And so things have really, really brightened up and um, so that's where she is today and they're still, I went through a lot of psychiatrists and a lot of anti depressants issues and argued with doctors and there's a good book called the emperor, the new emperor drug about antidepressants. I recommend every parent to read those, read that book. So I was obviously homeopathic and functional medicine and she really wanted a pill to take the pain away and so we went through and I was really careful we had to go through a lot, but I was all about movement movement and trying to change her, her brain chemistry through nutrition and movement. And so she was nice enough to let me work with her on, on movement. 

Chad: 11:25 She still works with antidepressants to take that edge off. We're working chemically, but yet we're also, I just want to, I mean, she's, she's doing great. I just want to make sure we drive that home and earned a phd in Colorado and, and, and, and pretty happy. 

Eric: 11:45 We're real happy. And, and, and, you know, the neat thing about bdnf and their studies that actually you work at together with antidepressants and I'm not a fan of those, but I'm just saying it, it, it actually works. The bdnf, you increase that and you can make it work with antidepressants. There's studies showing that they, those two can really work together. So she let me preach to her on the bdnf or some other things through movement exercise. And that's, that's really my story on it. You have pretty patient children. And, and, uh, uh, I, I always told her, you know, I always asked her if I could share her story with clients, you know, through the years. And she says, Dad, yeah, she goes, if, if it can help anybody, but it's just the truth. And I always told her I would never say that in her role, as you know, I'm still on, she doesn't take as many antidepressants because we'd been through the battles with Prozac and Wellbutrin, all these different ones. And then I've been down this path pretty heavy. And so I think we got her, you know, I mean, I'm a parent so I worry constantly, uh, but I'm always stressing, I can't get her to go keto almost almost. But she, uh, she, she actually does pretty good with their nutrition and she, she does believe that it plays a big factor in, in neurotransmission and brain chemistry, um, that she does do her movement. So she lets me keep her on that because that's all. It's amazing. Sorry, I didn't mean to go into that deep. 

Chad: 13:22 No, sorry you had, you guys had to work through that, but it sounds like it sent you on this path that has been incredibly beneficial in, in your understanding of the brain and its regeneration of cells and how exercise and movement plays a part in our happiness factor. Really. So let's talk about, let's talk more about that. So it's led you down this path of study, uh, for years and years and years. And I know you've been studying this for years. So let's talk a little bit about some of your findings. What is it that you're starting to notice about our brains? Our happiness and its relationship to movement?

Eric: 14:02 And, and that's the creative. Okay. The BDNF, which we all have it. Okay. And in the more of it that you have, the better. Alright. And so how you create this protein is this bdnf is through movement and so there's other ways which we'll talk about, but the, the one, the biggest one that most effective that they're finding out and through the studies, just in the year of 2018, I downloaded over 60, 70 a new studies. And what's interesting, these studies changed. I have studies all the way back to 1990s on the BDNF. Um, but they change, you know, now they say, oh, it's not so much with this and not so much with that depression or this order or this or you know, and there's back and forth study. So you're always got controversy. So I'm always trying to stay up on the latest a met analysis and studies on the BDNF. 

Eric: 14:58 So it's a constant. I look every month for, for, for new studies. And so, um, and to not get too broad into everything, but a movement is one of the key, uh, promoters and activation of the bdnf. And so as you increased movement, obviously different types, uh, and I have all the studies to back it up. You actually going to increase certain levels of the bdnf in blood serum, your central nervous system, your brain muscle tissue. Um, so it, it actually is a neuron protector and neuron growth and in every part and every tissue of your body. But, but it's really focusing on the brain. And so that's where we're at, where we're getting to the brain on, on those, uh, neurotrophin this bdnf and the studies show. Well, I mean, I can go over like, you know, the list of, um, with the bdnf and, and we know that with the bdnf, what's Alzheimer's and Parkinson's and neurodegenerative diseases. 

Eric: 16:05 What I have the studies right here that, that talk about, uh, what it does with aging. And I'm on the other neural degenerative diseases. Uh, and one of the exciting studies that, you know, I'm all about exercise and all about movement and especially with high intensity and you know, I, I, I go there a lot with, with high intensity, but they just did one that just came out this month that, and I'm not a big crossfit fan as most people know, I'm more functional movement, but I am like crossfit before the reason of that it does push the, the intensity up. And so they did a study I just on crossfit and they took a, you know, they did a clean a wall ball and everyone knows a lot about crossfits big and they did some double unders and they did a nine minute and they call that a WOD, an AMRAP as many reps as possible. 

Eric: 16:59 And it was exciting because they ended up coming out with this, that there is a correlation. Okay. As far as what that bdnf value, uh, it was, it was increasing the concentration of the plasma bdnf. So we have more studies coming out of aerobic exercise, improves the bdnf and young adult males. I got studies on that. I've got, uh, the studies on the Alzheimer's Parkinson disease. I'm an old old age, which I have the biggest fear because with age your bdnf does get reduced and so now they've got studies out just showing that association with bdnf increase. Okay. Uh, in the elderly, through movement, through exercise and even dancing with the elderly people, they find strength training they've come up with and for Multiple Sclerosis and type one diabetes was, you know, because I do a lot of diabetics and they came up with a high intensity intermittent type of workout that I promote. Okay. Is uh, well, we'll raise the BDNF and reduced their glycemic disorders and et cetera. And so they found the BDNF and type one and I'm about high intensity and I even like the crossfit one, those like 150 reps total. And in that nine minute period. And it was just neat to see this study. And I've always been around 150, 200 reps in my throat downs at a high intensity. So there's just countless studies and I, I've got stacks of them and I won't spend too much time on it, but on a neurotropic factors, the bdnf, just even in obesity, overweight depression and suicide is where I, that's the path that I, I kinda went down obviously. And that's what got me into because you know, depression is huge. What is it, 15, 18 percent of the population, you know, at some point in your life you're, you're gonna, you're gonna have that disability of depression and oh my gosh, it's, it's giant. It's 10 million a year in the United States are diagnosed. 

Chad: 19:10 So we can't overlook. We can't overlook the sedentary, sedentary lifestyle that most Americans are living at this point. Everything's done on computers, everything's done on devices and we're sitting and we're, we are still more than we ever have been in any amount obviously. And so this kind of the correlation can't be ignored. 

Eric: 19:40 No, can't. It's movement and in. And it's almost, it's just sad. And the suicide thing, I, of course I got into it, but, you know, think about it, it's in the top 10 leading causes of death, you know, of all ages, but then you think about it's the third leading cause of death among your 

Chad: 20:00 adolescence ages 12 to 16 or 17 or something like that.

Eric: 20:07 Two of my daughter's friends from high school. They were at my house, they came there and you know, my daughter had parties at the house and stuff too. And I know both the boys, uh, committed suicide last year and they're both one engineering student a great university and it's just shocking and it seems like everybody, you, we all know somebody attached to depression or suicide. Um, and it's, it's, it's like an epidemic as far as depression. 

Chad: 20:42 How do we, I mean, this might seem like an obvious answer to this question, but I think it's good to explore how do we maximize our benefit of the bdnf? Like how do, how do we, in our day to day, we're, we're understanding the science somewhat. You're helping us understand the science how do we maximize our benefit for ourselves day to day?

Eric: 21:06 And part why I've gotten deeper into it because I do, you know, I do the genetic snips, studies on people and I'm finding that the bdnf that we do have a pretty popular, uh, a snip single nucleotide polymorphism mutation. Okay. And it's been called the vow 66 net. It's the six, two, four, five, six, two, six, five, um, genetic snip of the bdnf. So the first thing I look at, I'm not the first thing, but there's lots of things I look at is their bdnf to see if you do have that mutation and because one out of three, uh, people do have the mutation to where you're not going to be effectively making the bdnf. So this gene covers that. And so I go there first because I got to know where you are on this bdnf and then then I have to really make corrections because you're at a disadvantage already. Okay. And like one out of three have it. I have two, I don't have the 6265. The popular one is the Valmet, the val 66 met, because I'm val val on that, which is cc a normal lil jon fine there, but I have two other ones, Chad, that are, are homozygous that are pretty rough and I was really disappointed because I'm all into the BDNF and one is only nine percent of the population has this snip and I'm one of the nine percent. And so in that cognitive, because remember when we're getting into the brain, the hippocampus now is, is the region that the bdnf has the most effect on. 

Eric: 22:50 Okay. That organ right there, it looked kinda like a seahorse or how they describe it. Um, and so what we're doing there is the hippocampus. That's where your memory, you're learning cognitive, besides the Beta hydroxybutyrate molecule that we always talk about cognitive where we need that bdnf because that's your learning language. Everything, uh, comes from the hippocampus and the bdnf is giving you that neuronal new growth, those synaptic transmission of neurotransmitters. And so this one on this snip is, it's, it's, it's found in a lot of subjects with autism. The one that I have a attention deficit, uh, it goes with, I'm OCD, so there's, there's a lot of issues and I have the other snip the, uh, the nine, oh, four, six snip and only 19 percent of it. And that's with autism or sense of again, OCD and a brain neural pathway reduction. So those are things I look at right away. And then we get into say how do we make the fixes okay. And then you go into, there's different fixes. Obviously movement is one of the most beneficial and a lot of the studies are on movement. Chad, when I go through movement movement movement and the Netherlands did a study of a couple thousand people. I remember that study and that was sunlight. They found, you know, the sad and you're in the, you're in that area. I used to live in for 13 years and I was actually there 13 years and I suffered from that. I really did that. I was like depressed half the time and, and I actually suffered, but they know now with sunlight and how many hours for this Netherlands study that you can actually bring up your bdnf a certain level so that, that was pretty exciting on, on sunlight. 

Eric: 24:40 Uh, and then of course there's um, uh, well, you know, how I used to train in the sauna, you know, the, my, my bike. That's. Yeah. Hyperthermic training and you add that it's kind of a double whammy. I got movement. I'm pushing the, the what would call the heat shock proteins, uh, by being in there and they found through through heat stressor, the heat shock proteins, you can actually increase your, your, your bdnf and along with that nor epinephrin and your adrenaline and everything else gets increased in your growth hormone from heat as a stressor, but you add the, um, the actual workout with that, you actually get a, a double production out of it. So, but there is um, and ketosis a obviously and others, um, fish oil, things like that help the bdnf. But main one that we're focusing on today is, is through movement movement. 

Eric: 25:41 And different types of movement that they find actually increases the bdnf because your neurons, obviously, when you do a certain movement over and over and over again, it just becomes repetitious, right? So there's no creation of new synapses and there's nothing needed. Now you change the movement, what happens? You're calling in more neurons, more synaptic, more, more transmission. So you're, you're actually increasing the BDNF. And that's why, that's why I do my workouts and I change everything up is for that movement. So, um, yeah.

Chad: 26:13 That's interesting. So you talked about, I mean obviously experiencing a little bit of that depression in the Pacific northwest, but you're now living in the most depressed state in the United States.

Eric: 26:28 I know, I, I, it's strange. I think they're the highest. Somebody just telling me this and I didn't look it up, but for like adderall and things like that or their prescription rate is unbelievable. And that's to my opinion, that's just putting extra stress on themselves by, you know, uh, worried about everybody else and what they have. 

Chad: 26:50 Well, you know, there's so many factors to that and you know, you might have a more liberal, the prescribing doctor, uh, you know, there might be doctors might be prescribing antidepressants, Utah or people might actually be depressed or you know, there's so many factors, but it's very, very interesting and we are, it does seem that we're going the direction, the opposite direction of what we need to be going, which is, and then I'll get off my soap box in a second here, but just allow me to just allow me, they think grace, but we're going the opposite direction that we need to be going, which, which is to say we're, we're more willing to prescribe antidepressants, which this is not an antidepressant rant. So please haters back off. Um, but we're, we're going to, we're, we're much more willing to prescribe antidepressants to people who are, who are not implementing movement into their life rather than first implementing some movement in implementing some natural, uh, bdnf activation. Then we, you know, and it's just, it's, it's a little bit frustrating. And I hope we can reverse this a little bit. 

Eric: 28:11 Yes. And, and, and that when, when you have that, you know, genetic mutation on top of just not moving and exercising, you're, you're very sedentary or you're obese, just say you're overweight, you're out of shape and you add the genetic snip to it and you really add a lot of issues. In fact, they did a pilot study, I remember and I think it was one of the universities in California and I'm going off memory, but they took a 150 something pilots and they had this genetic snip. Okay. Um, the, uh, and so they tested them on, you know, flight simulator test, and they did it over I think a year or two. And their test scores, those who have this mutation dropped, dropped twice as fast as the scores of the other pilots that, that did not have the mutation. So. Oh yeah, no, your cognitive and everything else suffers from it. Um, but the interesting thing is with depression on some of the people with the CT, uh, uh, that's called a mutation that ct, MCC, um, some of them don't, they have less depression. It now we're getting into cortisol levels. Okay. Obviously Cortisol is gonna have an effect on your bdnf. So those you have high cortisol and high bdnf could have a little more depression. So through studies that I've been researching, I'm trying to tie in cortisol with your bd and f and so that's my next, um, I have all the studies and I'm working on that because I have people that have very high cortisol and so we have to start figuring out how the bdnf factors in there and there's more studies coming out. There's a lot of great studies coming out and I hope I'll, I'll, I'll just keep adding to it in some of the podcast for people out there because I stay on top of it, on that end of it. But I try not to. And there is receptors to, and I, and I work with this, this gene that I look for is to call the n t r a k two. And that's, you know, you've got your receptors that are called the track. They call them track receptors that actually bring in the bdnf and take it to the nucleus and then it imposes its actions. 

Eric: 30:34 So you have to track A, b, you have a [inaudible] 75, so there's different receptors we have to look at. You may be deficient in those receptors, you may have a mutation and it just goes on and on. So you're, you're always tracking the say, hey, how can I get the best bdnf, um, activity going in and myself and others. So absolutely. There's actually a lot. 

Chad: 30:56 This is all fascinating to me, especially regeneration and natural happiness and all of that kind of stuff. It's just, I love these conversations and all science aside. I mean, I can see it in my own life. I can see it in my wife's life. Like when I'm, when I have phases of non movement in my life, I am significantly less happy. I'm significantly less. I'm involved intelligently, you know, it feels like my brain is slower, um, when I'm not finding time and space to move and give my body that opportunity to just flush it out. And I'll also say this, I mean, uh, and I mentioned, I see it with Kate, my wife as well. She, she absolutely, you know, when she's getting, when I'm noticing she's getting exceptionally cranky with the kids or me or, you know, she seems a little bit sad. I can encourage her to go do something that, that involves movement. She loves to run. She loves yoga. She loves, you know, and when, when those things are suffering, um, I can tell and uh, and there's, you know, that's just, that's, um, everyday life where, where we can notice that this actual science happening and it's pretty incredible. 

Eric: 32:24 Yeah. And it, you know, an exercise, you know, they know and they're always trying to figure out the mechanisms, you know, growth hormone nor epinephrin you have endorphins, you know, they're always trying to say where's the mechanism coming from? And they keep going back to this bdnf and more studies keep coming out. And you know, sleep plays such a major role with movement. You got to sleep, it increases your, your bdnf, obesity drops your bdnf, age drops your bdnf, stress drops your bdnf. And the list goes on, but if you just, the simplest thing is to move and I read a study somewhere and I'm going off memory it chewing gum. Actually, the movement of chewing gum, they actually did. Somebody did a little study on it and that constant movement, you know, you're going in your youth, you're always moving, you're chewing, you're moving. Actually true. So much gum. So emphatically. No. You know what I think because of those two snips I have, I think it's just, it's my natural draw I do to gum and I have five kids and not one of them are a gum chewer. I think it's ruined. 

Chad: 33:41 So we're running out of time. I have one last question and maybe this, maybe this, maybe this might be very obvious to everyone else, but, but, but not that high you feel when you're done exercising. I get that. That's like endorphin rush and there's a lot of things going on there. Is that related to the bdnf? 

Eric: 34:01 They're finding that out that, that feeling. Okay. Obviously, I mean think about it, your synaptic neurotransmission, everything is working so much better. You know, as you get better at movement and you get more adapted to it, um, it's all, it's all part of it. Uh, you know, and that runner's high and that's why I always, you know, I've been, I've owned gyms and been around people and it's amazing. They come through the door and I had a sign outside says it, it's not how you feel coming in. It's that feeling you concentrate on when you leave. So I mean, how many times you get up and you want to go work out. Even I dragged myself to the gym and do my workouts every morning and people think, oh, you're just, you're addicted. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. I just committed because I know I'm aging and I'm dying and I'm trying to reverse some of that and keep my bdnf up and I really have a personal relationship with as bdnf. I, and I watched it. My daughter, she's a big rugby player and she trains and, and she says she feels so much better when she's now she's doing throwdowns that I'm giving her different movements. So slow. It took years for me to, you know, some of your kids don't want to listen to you and they've heard me, you know, for many, many years about this stuff and now that you know she's graduated, she's like, Hey, I'm going to start doing these throw downs and just show she's got a gym in Fort Collins and we got it all set up. So she's doing these four round throw downs and I, I've been studying it, I have lactate, I got, I've got lots of stats it on trying to bring the high intensity into a cognitive so and, and, and happiness and everything else. So it's, it's my mission. 

Chad: 35:50 Well, this is, this has been fascinating. Thank you so much for biohacking with us today, Eric. 

Eric: 35:55 No, I appreciate it. Thank you. 

Chad: 35:57 And I want to thank you for joining us on this quest for optimal fitness. If you're ready to begin your own journey and live your life and Ketosis, be sure to check out biofitcoaching.com or biofit coaching on instagram. That handle is @biofit_coaching. As a reminder, bioStak is coming. And, uh, it's, uh, it's going to be incredible. So you're going to want to get your share of bioStak. If you don't know, this is the stack that Eric's been dev developing for the last three years. It's finally coming to market. You can go to biostak.com and stack has no C. So it's s, t a k, so bioStak, no c.com. Go ahead and check it out. Get on our early bird list. You'll get first access to some of this magic that is coming out. And the only thing you have to add to that bio stack is movement. Exercise. 

Chad: 36:52 I don't care what kind of movement, I just want just like the, like the marketing campaign, just add water, just add exercise anyway. If this podcast has helped you in any way encouraged you, entertained, you, consider going into itunes and leaving us a five star rating and a review. You know what that does for us? I've said it enough times. Finally, the greatest compliment you can give us is sharing this podcast with your friends and your family. Those who are looking for a different way to live and until next time, stay keto!