E14 Don’t Fear The Fat!

"Won't fat clog my arteries?" "I heard fat is bad for your heart." "You can't eat saturated fat, it's a killer"...odds are you've heard these statements before, probably from loved ones when you told them you were going keto. And it's not surprising as these refrains have been repeated for the last 60 years! But why? And what data is there to back statements like this up? In today's episode, Eric takes on the myth surrounding fat consumption.

How a cherry-picking study from the 50's led to the current belief around fat.

"Fat is your friend"

Why "good fat" and "bad fat" are often misclassifications.

Saturated fats vs Polyunsaturated fats

What happens if you start a ketogenic diet WITHOUT monitoring your carbs?

What fat did Chad fear when he first started the keto diet?

One of Eric's crazy self-experiments and its results: 420 grams of fat a day!

Why Eric is challenging decades of accepted "science".

How cardiologists are starting to publish papers challenging the fat myth.

This edition has all the information you'll need to combat the ketosis naysayers. By the end of this episode, Eric will have you saying "Fat is where it's at!"


Chad: 00:00 I'm pretty sure you spent all your time in the kitchen or the bathroom.

Eric: 00:04 Now  that's a strange scene in the kitchen. Yes. Neat. I'm just a fat eating machine or something.

Chad: 00:14 They say a journey begins in a single step or in my case, one less piece of bread.

Chad: 00:23 My name is Chad and I am your test subject. I have sought out an expert in the field of nutrition and fitness. I hoped would help me feel better. They call him the biohacker, but I call him eric. I hope you'll join me on a path that leads you and I to optimal fitness as we live our lives in ketosis. This is the life in Ketosis podcast, biohackers guide to optimal body performance.

Chad: 00:58 Hello everyone. My name is Chad and this is episode 14 of my quest to achieving optimal body performance with the man who can get me there. The biohacker himself. Mr Eric Bischoff. Every episode. I'll be sharing my actual results, both successes and failures as Eric teaches me how to apply the principles of ketogenetics and functional movement to look and feel fantastic. Now, as you started this episode, I just want to let you know that the first five episodes of this podcast are foundational episodes. That's where you get are your foundational knowledge around our approach to keto, Gen x and functional movement. So if you haven't listened to those first five episodes, I encourage you to push. Stop now on this one. Go back, listen to those, get your foundation first and then come back and join us here. So today I'm excited because this, this topic is very applicable to me.

Chad: 01:46 We're talking about a lot of the misconceptions around fat and consuming fat and I will say right now, Eric, I was one of those skeptics big time when I first heard what ketosis was or keto, the Ketogenic Diet. I was like, nope, that is not real. That's going to kill you. It's gonna. Stop your heart. It's going to clog your arteries. It's gonna. Make you feel gross. It's going to make your skin greasy. I had all of, I was. I was armed and ready with all of the ammo to, to, to, to say why this was not going to work or why this was a hoax or a fad or all that kind of stuff, so I can speak from experience in this episode and I'll bring up a lot of those original concerns that I had and a lot of the concerns that I have, people that I talk to you when I tell them that I'm, I'm, uh, that I'm on a Keto lifestyle and that kind of stuff. So anyway, how are you?

Eric: 02:43 Good. Good. Good subject. Actually, I'm glad you brought this subject up.

Chad: 02:50 So let's, let's dive right in. I think one of the biggest complaints are one of the biggest skepticisms that I hear is, isn't eating of that fat bad for your heart? Where did this idea come from and can you talk us a little bit through, uh, you know, the reality of how, how this fat that we're consuming is affecting our heart

Eric: 03:15 when we get. We have to go back to the beginning real quick. We've got to go back to the sixties because this is when the coronary heart disease became an issue. Before then, there wasn't a lot of heart attacks and a lot of heart issues, but Eisenhower and 55 had a heart attack. Uh, we started getting more issues about coronary heart disease. So we have to go there because that's a gentleman that basically is kind of the, uh, the owner of this diet heart hypothesis is, is ancil keys and a lot of you out there have heard of ancil keys, but back in the, in the fifties, he, we wanted to find, they were trying to find out what was increasing this coronary heart disease, heart attacks, et cetera. And so the issue was there was a sugar issue and there was those that were pushing it.

Eric: 04:09 It's a sugar consumption issue. Then obviously, then there's the, let's just said no, it's probably a saturated fatty issue or a cholesterol issue. And so that's when the question is it began. And then Ancil keys, he, you know, a quick brief, you know, that he did a, uh, it was a five countries study and there's actually a seven countries study that he went over to Naples and he went to create a grease an island and he said, let me find the populations you know, over there that are consuming, all right, what kind of diet they are, and check out their cholesterol levels and see where they stand. So out of the seven countries, which isn't random, OK, it was pretty much cherry-picked. OK. And there's a lot of other countries he could've went to, but those, he went to, it turned out he had a point to prove.

Eric: 05:01 Basically when you do the research and you read the history of it, it shows that he found those were consuming and no, and a large amount of, of, of fat, saturated fat and other issues and that they're there. They had heart disease. OK. Then there are costs rolls and everything was showing that that could be the culprit right there. OK. He didn't go to France, France, a big cheese eater, fatty eater, and they have very low heart disease and there's other countries and other populations we can talk about that have 50 percent consumption and no heart disease. But those were the ones in his study and basically that's what caught on. And then once you get it to the American heart association, which they picked it up and at first they were like, uh, no, this doesn't really sound feasible at all. But then, then he had a lot of uh, uh, he was pretty good at what he did as, as pushing his agenda.

Eric: 05:59 He was just good at it and it was just a scientist. OK. And so anyway, they got behind that and next thing you know, I'm a eisenhower was, you know, had a heart attack at 55 and he got rid of all those fat and, and the doctor, they're willing to work with ancil keys, his doctor and next thing you know, a Time magazine picked it up, 1961. He was the cover of time and there it exploded. And not with any scientific data behind it. Just that seven country study that was observational, OK, it wasn't even a randomize. And so there is literally, that's how I got started. So there's really no evidence and it's coming out now, you know, that train got started and then it jumps straight into the sixties and next thing you know, the government said, hey, what do we do is saturated fat, the culprit?

Eric: 06:53 And then we find out later that sugar, uh, it just came out last year. Um, the uh, uh, research came out that the sugar in a research group actually was worried in the sixties and fifties, sixties, right there, that sugar's going to get the blame for it. So they paid a three Harvard, a scientists $50,000 and this was the sugar research group and said, Hey, uh, let's try to get this study in showing that it's not sugar, it's more fat. Next thing you know. And that was just exposed the last few year, Eh, Eh, about a year and a half ago, it was just exposed a dentist, a gal founded in some university in Colorado in the archives, and she dug it all up and there was the memo telling them what to do and basically what they desired. And this is an industry, you know, working for their behalf. And so that kind of pushed it to fat.

Eric: 07:49 And next thing you know, the government picked it up in the seventies and government, they had a committee that says, what do we tell the people, you know, let's give them a diet plan. And then in [inaudible], the US, a dietary guidelines was released and that's where it said, get rid of your fat, bring in your, your carbohydrates. So that's when the low fat and the more carb a game about. Yeah, it's crazy how much it has stuck, right? I mean, you walk down the grocery aisle, you can't obviously can't go half a step without seeing low fat, low fat, low fat, low fat. And that train took off and it's, it was, it's been going. And the sad part about it, Chad, that I'm, you know, my age, 61, that, that was the start of, you know, I was born in 56 and things started changing and I know my mom, my mother was saying, no, we can't eat butter margarine.

Eric: 08:41 And so then we had, you know, hydrogenated oils, margarine and trans fat and all this stuff came about to where we weren't eating the fat anymore. And next thing you know is all process carbs and you know, you have to replace it with something if you're taking the photo. And so something's got to satiate. Yeah. Yeah. So the food industry just answered to it and said, hey, you know, we have no choice, let's feed in the process, you know, carbs. And that's when snackwell's and all, they just loaded full of sugar and off we went. And so that's, I'm, I'm very bitter about it because the more I study and the more, the clinical studies that are out there, it's just being exposed and more and more every day. And so that, that train is coming to a stop in with keto and all this other stuff.

Eric: 09:33 It's been living very different lives. Yes, to know, yes we could for sure. But now we have the science that's backing these fat. I'm these fat based diets and the ketogenetic diet and that kind of stuff. So talk to me about how the fat actually interacts with the heart or the arteries and in the same vein as the same conversation, right? The arteries. I've seen these demonstrations where they're squeezing the fat out of the artery and clog clogged and they're, and they're blaming it on the high fat diet of this person and look, look what's going to happen to you if you're eating fat, that kind of stuff. So how does that actually interact with. And I meet with my clients and their, their fear of fact. OK? And the one thing I teach them, I said right from the get go and I told you this fat will become your friend.

Eric: 10:20 And I didn't believe you didn't. You said No. And I said, no, it's going to be your friend, not your enemy anymore. Cause that's, that's like a meme, you been taught that and I was taught that that fat is bad. Everywhere you go, low fat, low fat, which obviously would tell you high fats, bad fats, bad, but the bond and I asked people in and I asked you to, what are you worried about eating? Fact embodies like clogs your arteries. I said, well, what are you worried about in the fat that's going to clog your w? What's your concern? What's the culprit? Is it the fat? And they really don't know where. It's just we're just regurgitating what we've been told and it shows you that clogged artery. OK, but even in that with fat clogging it because you think fat's Gracie and it's going to stick to the walls of your artery and it's just gonna.

Eric: 11:12 It's gonna. Reduce the blood flow. OK, you're gonna have a heart attack. But what's interesting, and I even have a paper that I found a long time ago, maybe last year, and what's interesting about it and what's why I'm really bitter about it and just bear with me. I'll make this real fast. When, when atherosclerosis starts, it starts when you're young, there's teenagers with fatty streaks. I mean, it's a progressive thing. It just doesn't happen. All right? And the biggest culprit of it, I mean his age. OK. So as you age, and I'm pretty sure I have atherosclerosis. And then you're like, how did, did you know I'm really healthy. I can run, I can compete. But due to the point of when you do not clog your arteries, so that loom and the blood flows through the lumen. OK, that's your, that's your opening. OK, so af after sclerosis heart disease.

Eric: 12:12 Let me just keep leaving it at that. OK? Heart disease, heart disease. All right? It's starting OK.

Chad: 12:17 Reduced flow of allowed to the right.

Eric: 12:20 And so what science has proven and shown, and that's why I get so mad about this clogged pipe garbage that they in the media hypes it because you see a picture, then you go, I'm not eating fat. I'm going to go on that. You know. But the, the interesting part about it is what happens when that all you're combating, you're worried about the corporate is a cholesterol sterile. OK? So what they said, when you eat saturated fat, you're going to raise your cholesterol level, OK? So obviously what we're concerned about is what we're calling an l, D, l particle, OK? So remember your liver produces, OK, what we call the LDL, OK? These are very low density lipoproteins, OK? So remember you're eating fat, you're eating fat, you're eating via, you know, you're having a nutrition and all this.

Eric: 13:12 So basically the, the liver, OK? Has An avenue to move triglycerides through your body, OK? So it's gonna. Remember triglycerides, they'll give you your muscles, energy, they go to storage. Remember they, they hit that Lpl we talked about and that's going to release it and break it up. The fatty acids go into energy, you know, you, you, you drop off the glycerol backbone. But anyway, what the liver does it say, Hey, I've got to move this stuff through. So I'm going to attach it to what they call a lipid protein, OK? Uh, and so it's a vsl, ldl, that's a carrier, OK? So the liver says, Hey, I'm going to put this triglyceride, the fat. I got to move it through the blood because it's, it's fad, it's not going to go through a water-soluble like blood. So he needs to be attached to what we call an APO lipoproteins.

Eric: 14:00 That's a carrier. It's like a ship, let's say. OK, so real quick, it takes that triglyceride, attaches it to that. It takes him fat in any nutrients, fat soluble, whatever it attach it to it. And then they'll say, hey, let's put some cholesterol on. OK? That's what we're talking about. And so what happens? It moves through your blood, the LDL, and it delivers triglycerides. It's a carrier, it's got the liver fat in the muscle. It's your storage and it's got to get it away from the liver. It's, you know, you might have turned carbs into a saturated fat, OK? Which we do and when you overeat carbs, and we'll talk about that. But anyway, so the bottom line is when that via Ldl is circulating, it ends up losing triglycerides, it becomes smaller, alright? Then it becomes ldl. Then as it gets smaller and smaller, it's that small dense ldl particle that's the culprit.

Eric: 14:51 OK? And you want to be able to get rid of that, but that's what's going to eventually get so small it's got to come out somewhere but it wants to deliver and wants to take it. But by that time it loses its what we call that April protein has a little doc on it and it goes to the LDL receptor. It doesn't quite match up so it stay circulating, gets smaller and sooner or later the sterile sticks to the artery. And guess here's the. The the point that starts the plaque it the first 40 percent of your plaque goes on the other side of your loom. It's not in the artery is not in the blood flow. It goes through the endothelial cell on the other side and until that reaches 40 percent inside, then it starts to come through. All right. That's when you have an eruption.

Eric: 15:43 The fibers cat breaks off and that's when the inflammation sets him. You start building plaque, so I know besides on the other side of my loom, Abu, they call it. I'm sure I have just a lot of plaque waiting there and we call them phone sales and that's what's sad because I was eating the diet all this time, so that's kind of a brief. So I went to a little bit, but the whole corporate that I'm getting to is we've got to worry about cholesterol is good. All right, your, your, your liver makes, you know, every tissue makes its own cholesterol. We talked about cholesterol in the cell membrane and making hormones from it and cell communication, etc. But every tissue makes its own cholesterol. Deliver mayBe makes 15 percent cholesterol. Cholesterol is viable. You have to have it to live. But the prominent is that small dense, that real small cholesterol that it attaches to the endothelial cell in the artery wall and that's when, that's what we're trying to prevent. But eating fat doesn't do that. All right? so the saturated fat doesn't cause that. All right, so we've got to work. You know, I don't wanna go too deep into don't ldl the cholesterol is, but hopefully it didn't lose you. Sorry about that.

Chad: 17:04 Not at all. So back to my original question was how does fat interact with, with the heart, and obviously the heart is a muscle, right? Um, and the fact that we're consuming, especially in the ketogenic diet, but we're not consuming the carbs at the same time, are feeding the muscles, um, and, and creating energy, reducing fatigue. It's interacting with the lactate ketones, ketones. Correct? So what is it doing for our heart health

Eric: 17:34 first place when you eat dietary fat? We're talking about our tech that. Ok, you eat it, right? It goes into the small intestine and it has, you know, of course it's emulsified by bile. ok? But it's going to be attached to a kalo micron. That's another light bulb protein. That's a apo b. We call it safety net carries arounD l a, v e l d allen ldl. That's the carrier, right? That kyla, my crime when he goes through the thoracic. Alright, guess where it goes first to, once you hit to the thoracic, into the aorta, where's he going to the heart? The heart has first call on it if it wants it as an energy source. So we have that, that, that lpl, that enzyme that says, hey, if the heart wants it, it sends a message out to the capillaries around wherever it wants it and it'll take that triglyceride right off the kyla micron and it'll break it down, use it as energy. And then the backbone of that of course, is, is glycerol, which goes back to the liver. He converted. So the heart loves fatty acids. Ok? But it's not like you're gonna, you know, as you eat too much fat. Ok? Obviously it says, hey, the heart doesn't want it. Other tissues don't want muscle, doesn't want it. Then insulin has to say, let's go start and then we go store. So it, it's, it's not a. People have to get away from this thought of fat is just caught up all your art.

Chad: 19:02 Interesting. Because I'm not even, I'm not that old. I mean I'm 34 and it is. So, it was so ingrained in me when we first met, we started talking about keto. Yeah. It was so ingrained in me that fat was bad and gross and that had, you know, it gave you greasy skin and clogged your artery. I mean, it's just, it's incredible to me that, that, that type of false information driven by and funded by industries can lead multiple generations astray in, in what we consume

Eric: 19:37 and in what happens now because you know that we have the pipe issue. Right? let's clean the pipe. I mean, you said it was like a plumber and it just really aggravates me when I see that and that, you know, that idea that 40 percent has to go on the other side, not inside your arteries and it doesn't affect the flow at all. That paper Came out. I think I have 1980 talking people. Let's totally ignored. Ok. It's totally ignored, but you know, eh, in, that's when angiograms. Ok. All right. When they go in and do an ngo grants and a camera through there and the artery to, they can go through mine and said, hey, you're clean, but they cannot see what's on the other side of that endothelial cell wall. What's pushing on the other side is going to come back through and caused damage. It could cause. Once that happens, then you do get a blockage. You, you, you get stenosis, then it's a narrowing of the artery and then you've got angina and you better be careful. But I, I, I'm really bitter because I know I'm really fearful that what's lurking on the other side and how, how much do I have? And there's an angiogram. Can't tell You this. Say I'm clean. Yeah. And interesting.

Chad: 20:53 So are all fats are created equal? I mean as we talk about fats, obviously you've named a variety of different types of fats, consumable fats, right? Talk to me about. I mean, can you give us like a crash course at [inaudible]? these are, these are the types of fats and, and here's how they're interacting with your body and I'll keep it simple. I promise that there's

Eric: 21:16 good fat. They say good fat, that's fat, bad fat us. Really know what we're talking about. What's the bad? Fat is saturated fat. Again, that's animal coming from animals and found a couple a coconut oil and palm oil. Ok, so that's the saturated fat. Alright, it's steric acids. There's lower gas in the saturated fat than what we've talked about before. We have the mono unsaturated fat and I won't go into how many Bonds I have and all that. But you will omega nines, ok, that's your avocado, olives and olive oil. And that's a good fat. Then we have what we call polyunsaturated fats. That's your essential fatty acids. Remember we had that last time because will make a six and omega three. Ok, so those are the essentials. So what they're saying and all their testing and they said, and I am, I have the Minnesota coronary survey.

Eric: 22:12 All any testing we've had to say, all right. Why is saturated? You know, they wanted to prove that they tested said, ok, let's replace saturated fat with polyunsaturated oils. Ok. Can say that's going to bring your cholesterol down and lower heart disease. So that was their big push against saturated fat. So they had these trials and like there was a main [inaudible] ok. And they randomized controlled trials, which means it's not observational. Ok? It's, it's kinda like, you know, that's the standard you got to go by because it's randomized. Then there's above that they call it double blind and there's only two of those that ever were done and we're talking, this is, this was the sixties and seventies, these were done the late fifties, nothing later than that. So we're going off old clinical studies, but they have tried over and over and there's not one clinical study that even the Minnesota coronary survey, they did that and I go into the details, but bottom line is they could not.

Eric: 23:14 There was nothing saying that poly replacing saturated fat with polyunsaturated fat is beneficial or is going to reduce coronary heart disease. In fact, on this study here, when they released it, it was like 60, the late sixties, the early seventies. When he did the study, it was all quiet. They said, well, there's really nothing and know maybe a little reduction in cholesterol, which it does. Poly unsaturated fats will reduce cholesterol. Ok? He doesn't let through it and I won't go into detail. But what's interesting about this study shows last year it really reignited, um, in 2016, yeah, a gentleman named chris Christopher Ramsey, he actually, he's kind of a, he works from nih. He's, he's kind of investigators, scientists, and he uncovers all these. He's looking for all clinical trials and studies to see what he can expose your find deeper. Well, anyway, on this Minnesota, this is well known.

Eric: 24:10 In fact, it's right here. I've read this, this is, it's a fantastic study. read a long time ago. And what did, what he did when this hit the news, but nobody really talked about it. It said, hey, that test, what happened? He contacted the, the gentleman dr France who, who initiated the study big study. I am ok, very important. And they were trying to prove that polyunsaturated fats, we places in saturated fat and it's saturated fat. And what happened was he contacted his son and Basically ask them if there's any other records, anything that is his father passed away, I think in 2009 or eight. And the senses. Yeah, I'll go back to the home. I think there's a bunch of records and boxes and stuff down in the basement. Well, real quick. Christopher and he went there, made a few trips. He found a bunch of boxes and say, hey, I think I found some stuff from that study had been buried down there.

Eric: 25:06 Ok. Since the early seventies. And what he found, they went through it as a team and they've found from that study they found like 290 something autopsies and in others [inaudible] 90 autopsy. But they, they recovered [inaudible] think of them. And so they actually went through those autopsy reports and what they found out those on the controlled, they were saturated fat because that's what they said they were eating. And those who are on polyunsaturated fat that controlled had 22, about 22 percent on a heart attacks heart disease that they found it on the polyunsaturated. Where do you. One percent. Oh wow. Double. Wow. Doesn't look too good for polyunsAturated oils. Doesn't know. There's other randomized studies I can go into and there's another, you know, there's another, a double blind study. Those are the gold standard. And, uh, other studies observational, but you know, anybody can pick apart a study, you know, there's one say no it was this, this and this and you know how that goes back and forth. So you really got to kind of understand and the day I'm, no, study is perfect, but that's just pretty. This, this wasn't good for polyunsaturated oils that they'd been preaching all this time.

Chad: 26:22 Yeah. So really to me it sounds like what you're saying is that this, this, this good fat, bad, fat terminology really isn't that useful? Not at all. Um, it'S more so that there are different formats for different things and we can utilize each fat in its own way.

Eric: 26:39 Yes. Yes. And that's what we have to do. So now I'm w in coaching you, I'm incorporating saturated fat back into your life or you're making your animal, you know, fats and everything else.

Chad: 26:52 Difficult. I will say that right now. And anybody listening I think maybe not in everybody, but I think a good majority, it is a difficult process to start putting that back in.

Eric: 27:03 I'm telling you like, look in me, you're going to get what, 12 or 13 vitamins and you're like, no way, and I said, you're going to get your fat soluble vitamins, you're going to get your aa, d and m and you're eating and you're going to get your b vitamins will be [inaudible] [inaudible]. You're going to get these in meat in. You're not gonna get vitamin c, but the eh, they're really packed in there. There's minerals. I mean, there's a lot of stuff in them.

Chad: 27:30 Yeah, and we know that it's more, for me at least, it was more of the textures and the tastes and that can assist that were more difficult. I meAn, I, I'm a nine year vegetarian. I was back on meat for less than a year when I met you and started going gang busters on the fat. Right.

Eric: 27:47 You're vegan before I jumped into this and it was really hard on me because I, I studied being pretty good and now I'm like, wow, I've really never understood fact because I fell for that. You know, that fat hypothesis and so did everybody else and that's why you look around us today. What do we have really got unhealthy, you know, population because of obesity and prediabetics metabolic syndrome. Heart disease is the number one and that's the issue. So how do we stop that? And that's, that's where the, the big, you know, that diet, heart hypothesis said we got to attach it to something. It is the cholesterol sterile that sticks in your artery, but it's not the l, you know, we all talk about, um, uh, the cholesterol values, your hd and your ldl and I want to get too much. And they're all saying it's your ldl cholesterol that everybody goes by.

Eric: 28:47 Ent doctors will tell you, oh, your ldl cholesterol was really high. We're going to give you a status or we're going to do something with you, but has nothing to do with the cholesterol total of the ldl. You look puzzle because when they give you that, you know, reading, it's, that's the total ldl cholesterol. But remember what we talked about, ldl has different particles. There's different sizes in. Remember I said that small dense particles, well now theY know there's different particles, so within that you might have a larger ldl, which is a good buoyant ldl particle that's good for you, but it's the small ones you need to get in. We can actually get a particle count today. You never could before, so you know if you have how many particles, ldl partIcles you have, which is what you really got to go by. If you have a home as ldl particles, then we have issues, but the big thing is you find out how small that ldl particle issue, it does have a little bit of cholesterol in it by that time, and then it. Then it's all talking about the oxidization of that, the phospho lip ids that are surrounding that apo b, a protein that the carrier and then inflammation sets in and that's what creates that plaque. That's what creates the habit. And I won't get into how it starts with fatty streak and all that, but that's the culprit.

Chad: 30:08 Ok, so really, really simply put a simple explanation is as possible. What happens if somebody dives into this high fat lifestyle but doesn't it but but, but isn't as particular about limiting their carbs. How does that affect. How does that affect the heart? Because here's the thing that I'm noticing and here's the. Here's my warning to everybody that I talked to is you have to track, you have to do, you have to meal track, you have to macro track, all of that kind of stuff and macros for those of the. For those of you listening that don't know what we're talking about when we talk about tracking your macros is that that's tracking, tracking your macro nutrients in all the food that you consume and it scares me because I know a lot of people who say they're doing keto who are eating really high fat now, but they're not tracking their macros and they don't know for sure how many carbs they're consuming that word. What's the danger that is is

Eric: 31:10 you know, and that's, that's the scary part about ketosis. It's so big right now and a lot of people are jumping in on it not knowing how to do it properly. they're consuming a lot of fat because now listen, they say fats, all fat is, is, is good to go, but you have to control it. Ok? The only reason in ketosis we can enlarge our consumption of of fat, saturated fat and mono and some, you know omega six, it'll unsaturated. You'll make a three year fishing stuff that you get that in meat, so you want to keep that essential down low, all right? but they start just going free with it and then meanwhile their carbs are a little too high or way too high. They can't convert that to a ketone. All right? The whole point is saying, hey, that fat that I'm consuming and the fact that I have stored, I'm going to convert that to an energy source.

Eric: 32:04 Which spade hydroxy butyrate molecule, that's your ketone. You're gonna burn it as energy, but guess what? You keep your insulin up because of those carbs. Fats going to go to storage, storage, and there's nothing you can do about it. You know, and, and what's excited about saturated fat since I've been down this path, saturated fat actually raises what we'd call [inaudible]. All right? And that's, that's another hcl particle. Ok. Part of cholesterol. It's, it's like, you know, it's an apo. I'm a carrier on a phd, but it'S what we call white people. Call it the good, but basically it has a purpose of moving around in your circulation to help because every cell makes cholesterol but then each too much and becomes toxic. hdl will actually kiNda scavenge it, you know, mop it up, take it to the liver and get rid of it.

Eric: 32:53 Ok, so html is good at keeping the bad extra cholesterol out of your blood. And So saturated fat when you eat that [inaudible] pops out. Yeah. Triglycerides come down because you dropped your carbs. So triglycerides, ldl cholesterol count like mine did go up a little bit to the point where the doctor will say, hey, your statins, eric and I, I told you this, I had a 40 minute discussion with him talking about blood lipids and cholesterol and why in, in a, in a good, a real predictor of coronary heart disease that we talked about is if you take your total cholesterol divided by your hgl and if you come under three, the ratio, you're good to go. In front of him. I did all this. I said, look, [inaudible] another great, you know, I even have a paper here and this has been around a long time of taking your triglycerides and divided by html.

Eric: 33:51 And if you're under one, uh, it's, it's just a great predictor of heart if you're under one, you're point two five. And I said, look, I went through the whole thing with him and he didn't even pay attention to that. He does note, the chart says this, you need statens. But I thought I could prove it to him. And he finally just said, eric, do what you do, and I don't care. I don't think doctors won't bio hackers coming in and trying to prove them wrong. Eric. No, but it really stands to have a purpose. It can reduce cholesterol and I can go in why it reduces cost, but it does bring down a cholesterol count. It does, but the side effects and then muscle fatigue and low energy and you're, you lose your co q 10 and a lot of things like that. And there is, I think if you have serious heart issues then there might be a place for it. But it's given out like vitamins. Now up your costs a hundred and eighty. I'm giving you status.

Chad: 34:48 Well put that along with every other medication that handing out candy right there. so the other danger that I'm seeing or, or my, my perceived, I perceive it as danger is people who are jumping in to a high fat diet and not exercising regularly. And um, do you wanna talk about that a little bit, about how fat interacts with our, our muscles as we exercise and our lactate and all super brief.

Eric: 35:17 I'll make a brief. We everything you know, in your mitochondria, if we're going to go there, we talk about energy status, ok? So we have insulin out there that's going to push your glucose and you know, in that blood sugar into the cell, ok? But obviously the going to reject it if it's got enough energy to say no, keep. But what we also have is now we're learning how to really incorporate fatty-acid as your fuel source. Fat is great, even if you're not in ketosis, you can burn fat. But the biggest weakness, it's good if you keep your level down. Ok, let's say I'm working out. If I keep my vo tune, I keep my, my threshold down to where the mitochondria can say, hey, I'll take all the fat or I'll take, you know, glycogen, glycogen glucose and I'll utilize that. But what we do and what's exciting about what in ketosis and why I went into ketosis is I'm actually providing another energy substrate.

Eric: 36:17 All right, I'm actually converting the fatty acids to a ketone beta hydroxy butyrate molecule, which now goes to the mitochondria, to the muscle cell, into the mitochondria, into the kreb cycle, and actually produces more atp. All right? YoU have less free radical damage we've talked about, but I'm going to get more bang for my buck then a glucose molecule. But what's nice is I am an endless supply of fatty acids. I have 60,000 calories. How much glucose and we talked about before, how much, maybe a couple thousand calories, but the exciting part is an energy source. It goes to the brain. Now remember, fatty acids can't cross the blood-brain barrier. You just rely on glucose. That's why you have your ups and downs in your energy. Your cognitive is not good. Now we're using our fatty acids, converted into ketone beta going to the brain. The brain loves ketones, ok?

Eric: 37:07 And if they don't use it like 75 percent, it'll still have some glucose because you have some. All right, you're still producing. So I'll be reading some carbs and through conversion of glycerol and other things, you'll get some, some glucose. But fat is where it's at. I mean for energy. And I have actually in training I can. Most people can't really take in beta oxidation zation you cannot use the fat into the mitochondria if you're going to hard, especially if you're getting into lactate that can burn in, it can't burn in the cytoplasm, can't burn, only glycogen is going to be used and it's going to be converted to lactate, et cetera. But I think I've raised my threshold [inaudible] I can hold a certain power outage at a higher level that I should not be able to do that in a lactate that long. So I really believe I'm actually. And I tested then I'm actually getting into some fatty acids, converting my mitochondria to use energy. And that's kind of cool. If you could raise that threshold, that's great. So

Chad: 38:10 what are the deal breakers are almost deal-breakers for me. In the beginning was when you said, you know what puts some heavy whipping cream in your coffee now because that's going to give you a great boost in the morning. And I said none of your contaminant is touching my black coffee butter. And you're like, what? I said, hell no, you really did trust me. You

Eric: 38:36 really, I do at my chicken broth. And you're like oh that's disgusting. And it's really hard for people to say, look, I'm putting whipping cream right in my drink. Are you kidding me? You know, and it's hard.

Chad: 38:49 I, it was almost a deal breaker but now you've ruined me because I can't have a cup of coffee without a good, a good amount of heavy whipping cream. You don't empty right? You're doing some eggs and butter and you don't put it in the coffee though, cause I don't like the way it tastes. So ice coffee. So I just take a spoonful of [mct] in the morning and I just take it straight and get it done with. And it's amazing. Chan and those that are out there that

Eric: 39:17 you know in ketosis or not it. It really is amazing when people become fat adapted. All right? In two ways, taste the foods case really because memory we took, he made us take all the fat out of food. You're eating bacon. That was like rubber. It wasn't even pork. I and this is what I went through. Margarine and this country, whatever that stuff was spread or whatever it was, and then all of a sudden you start coming back to nature's food and this is what we try to get across with. This is what nature provided. All right? And it's in it tastes way better. It's very satiating. So now you're going to get rid of your hunger. You're going to feel satisfied. You're not going to be on this carb cycle all day long. You know, forcing glucose back in, back in and the cravings leave and it's not just that, but now your body's becoming fat adapted to burn it for energy. And that's the biggest problem with athletes when they're so glucose oriented. That bodies says, hey, I'm not really good at burning fat and now your bunk and you've got no more glycogen life. Well let's take some fat. Not fat adapted yet. You're going to suffer. But now when I train athletes and they just said, man, I can just keep going. There's so many benefits from it.

Chad: 40:34 Nothing. Nothing complements cruciferous vegetables like some fat. You got like alicia. I mean just some, some sprouts with some bacon. Like, oh, it's amazing. I get

Eric: 40:47 aI.  went on a 420 grams of fat a day for seven days to test it and I was like, it was, it was really ok. I have to admit that much. Fat was really gross because I was waking up at 11 at night shoveling and other avocado to get everything in. My wife's like, what are you doing? And I go, I don't know, but I got approved and I'm not going to gain weight on this, you know, and I still worked out and everything, but I made it seven day and it was weird. After the first day I started liking it and I thought, what is wrong with me, but you know, I gained one pound. That was, it was awesome. And he was like, uh, and when he says I'll put all these out their studies and my wife's just started, the first few days I was just whipped cream and butter and it says down here,

Chad: 41:38 I'm pretty sure you spend all your time in the kitchen or the bathroom

Eric: 41:43 we're seeing in the kitchen yet. But I was like, maybe I'm just a fat eating machine or something.

Chad: 41:51 So talk to me about people who are eating a ketogenic diet or, or living a ketogenetic lifestyle. So they say and are not losIng the weight.

Eric: 42:00 And I apologize. I got up there is the biggest problem is I always ask them, well, what has been your beta hydroxybutyrate testing been like. And they're like, what? I said, are you testing your beta? No, I just, I know what I'm eating. And then I go over it with them in the promised their carbs are like 80, 90, a hundred. I said, look, you're not in ketosis. You're really, you're just eating a lot of fat, which I wouldn't recommend. Ok, unless you're going to burn it, you're going to store this. All right. You might burn a little bit of it, but the carbs are going to keep the insulin, like I said, high enough to where it says, hey, you're eating all this fat. I can't do anything with it, but storage and it's not healthy and that's why I worry out there is there's so many people that are saying, hey, I'm in keto. It's be getting big, but if you're not testing your beta hydroxybutyrate molecule and see if you're in that point five and above range, then guess what? You're not doing yourself any good viewed as adding to the issue. Ok,

Chad: 43:03 be careful. So why? You know, we've, we're coming off of decades of doctors and studies and all that kind of stuff that you've mentioned telling us that fat is bad. Why should we trust you before? If it's not you are trusting, why should, what should we trust or what? What should we be paying attention to them?

Eric: 43:23 And that's a good question. Not really good question because you said, eric, you're full of crap. All right, but I think what's big about is why doctors. I used to get mad at him because I talked to a lot of doctors in France and trust me, we've been round and round and what it is they learn what they learn in med school. They don't go through nutrition at all. Ok. And it's, it's just something that go with beCause that train is going pharmaceutical companies or are giving them the drugs to say, hey, status for this. This is for this, this is for this. They have no choice really. I mean that's what the insurance is gonna cover, so they just get in that mode to where they're not saying, hey, I'm going to be my own investigator and I'm gonna. Check this out. But oh, I did bring a sheet.

Eric: 44:07 I'm glad you asked that question because I. There's a. It came out a deceased share. A couple cardiologists. One guy I follow for quite a while, and his name is [inaudible]. I'm [inaudible] and he's a cardiologist and they wrote an article that came out and they got blasted because more cardiologist and more doctors are saying, hey, we may have got this wrong. Saturated fat isn't the enemy and maybe it's a polyunsaturated oils that are causing all this problem. You know it right here. It came out in the medical industry does not like to be wrong. No, no, no, and they're going against the grain, but more and more it's amazing and I love every time I searched for these articles, I follow these guys on on twitter just to read what they're saying and what I'm talking about. If you want to know anything about fact, search out lipidologists, they're the ones that know everything about fat, but no doctors don't think about fat saturated fat, cholesterol, the ldl ldl, the particle count, or they don't know.

Eric: 45:12 Well, why don't you read what lipidologists you're referring to general physicians, but it's not there. Therefore it's not their business to know all that they can. They really don't have time to study all that, but these guys real fast, it came out a british medical journal and they said, despite popular belief among doctors in the public, the conceptual model of dietary saturated fat clogging a pipe is just plain wrong. A landmark, a systematic review and meta-analysis of observational studies show no association between saturated fat consumption and all cause mortality, coronary heart disease, coronary heart disease, mortality and stroke, and type two diabetes in healthy adults. And these are more cardiologists coming out and really, and they also say the limitation of current plumbing approach, we've talked about that to the management of coronary disease is revealed by a series of randomized controlled trials which prove that stinting significantly obstructive stable lesions fail to prevent myocardial infarction or to reduce mortality.

Eric: 46:21 So we talked about to the angiogram that put stents in there. It doesn't decrease heart attacks. A cardiologists coming out saying, hey, we're better. Look at this. That's kind of exciting and that's what makes me went through my studies and reading more and more. I have to self experiment and that's why I tell people it, give it a try. I mean, you know, that you can believe me or you can believe the other, the other story, the other side of it, and then you, you go with it. But I can tell something changes and new studies, but you know, clinical studies or are not going to happen anymore. That funding's not there. And we're banking hall. This, that proves that saturated fat wasn't the culprit. We're talking 40, 50 years ago they had this and there's nothing, there's no new studies like that.

Chad: 47:14 So what we're left with is self testers and I don't know anybody yourself tested at the level that you have now.

Eric: 47:20 And that's what I keep trying, you know, and, and I hope to and I'll keep digging through research and that's what I like to do and I just don't want people be afraid of fat. I mean, that's my biggest thing. Let's make fat your friend. Don't overdo it. I change just glutton, saturated fat and there is like a hyper, uh, um, cholesterol anemia that it's familiar. Hypercholesterolemia. That is a genetic disorder that mutation, uh, uh, in that if you have, that means you have a lot in producing a lot of cholesterol and then I'll say, hey, no, let's not go the saturated fat for you. And there's some other fto and there's other, what we call snips that I would say, hey, now let's not take you down this path. And I look at those and there is a few of those snips that, that you've got to watch out for. So surely there's people that know, I would say not, let's, let's keep you off that. So it was already high enough. It's, it's, it's, it's a mutation that you have,

Chad: 48:17 but there are answers. That's the, that's the important thing is that there are answers through your study, through yourself, testing all of that

Eric: 48:24 in the blood markers. Your lipids. I tested, I follow you guys on your lip. It's to make sure that hey, they're in check. If I see a flag, then I say, hey, let's go talk to your doctor or whatever. Then I'll go with you or whatever. And I've talked to some doctors and I'm not a doctor, but I at least gave you some ammo to go to your doctor with an ask these questions to make sure.

Chad: 48:47 Yeah. Well this has been incredible. Uh, is there anything else before we, before we take off to make sure that. Is there anything else you want to make sure people understand about fat?

Eric: 48:57 JuSt the biggest thing is it's, it's all gonna come down to is what we call that small dense ldl particle that's gonna stick in your arterial endothelial cell and to keep the inflammation down and you keep what we call the omega six polyunsaturated oils. That's what does the oxidation. All right? And that's why when we talked about last time, don't overdo your omega six is because that's what really oxidized the phospholipids. And that's what creates the havoc in the arterial wall with inflammation. And so don't be afraid of fat and there's good fats don't eat, you know, I, I'm grass fed beef, you know, I'm always, always picking out the right meats and the right fishes and all that. And I'm not saying just go crazy, but you got your models and your mono saturated and a little bit of your policy and your fish and you have your saturated fats. Coconut oil is good. I mean a lot of that stuff. So don't be afraid of fat. Make your friend if you can.

Chad: 50:02 Yeah, I think that's the underlining message of this podcast for sure is just fat. Can be your friend. Just know how knowledge is everything. Yes. Or if you can't, if you don't have the time or the means to gain the knowledge yourself, get a coach, get somebody on your team that can coach you through this thing because it's bigger than just, you know, getting the protein style burger at, in and out. It's a lot, you know, it's a lot bigger

Eric: 50:30 in going in and out isn't, you know, people say, well, I'm in one day, I'm out. The next day I might go, oh, what are you doing? You keto. I mean, you really got to keep those scaled out days once every two weeks in my opinion, you know, and things like that and get you locked in to where your keto for eight, 12, you know, after six months it just gets better, so that's great. And next year you get your vitamins and all your sops and you know, different things like that we'll talk about along with it and there's a lot more to go with it, but good to talk about fat. I appreciate you bringing up the subject.

Chad: 51:05 Yeah. Well thank you so much for biohacking with us today. Be that and I want to thank all of you for joining us on this quest for optimal fitness. If you're ready to begin your own journey and live your life and ketosis, be sure to check out biofitcoaching.com or biofit coaching on facebook. Also, if any of the information that we've shared on this podcast with eric shared on this podcast has helped you in any way, we'd like to invite you to consider going to itunes and leaving us a review. A five star review or a five star rating, and a review really helps us reach more people. It helps us make a bigger impact and people can know what the podcast will do for them before they actually listened. So wherever you get your podcasts or on itunes, go ahead and rate us and leave us a review there. And until next time, stay keto!