On today's Sunday Supp the guys talk about the experience of listener Risky, and the effect ketogenic nutrition can have on epilepsy.
How keto has been used to treat epilepsy for 100 years!
The 4 types of ketogenic diets.
Keto's impact on seizure reduction.
And where to go from here for those dealing with epilepsy.
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Chad: 00:06 We're getting a lot of questions regarding the proper way to live life in ketosis. We have you covered in our midweek mini series called Sunday Supps. Every Sunday we have a quick supplemental episode where we answer your questions on all things keto. So today our question comes from risky and risky asks. Well it's actually not quite a questionnaire, it's more of a statement, but I thought it was so interesting and important that I, I wanted to get your thoughts on it. So a risky says rather than asks, um, I am battling medication resistance, epilepsy on n m a d or Kito Diet over an extra exploratory brain surgery. The doctor said was pretty much my only option with no guarantees seizures would cease. So I've heard of this, I don't know a lot about it. Um, I do listen to the podcast of a, of a neuroscientist and they talk about this, um, this brain operation that you can have where they move, if I understand right, they actually disconnect the left and right lobes of the brain. And it can often result in, um, the ceasing of epileptic seizures, which is pretty phenomenal. But it's still brain surgery. So this person is talking about a diet that is, is an including keto in that that can possibly help with epilepsy. What, what do you know about this?
Eric: 01:33 Yeah, and the surgery, you know, it's there for those patients. They have what they call amendable lesions. So obviously surgery is, is uh, one of the, the, the applications to do. And I, I, I feel bad risky. Uh, I, I, I do, I've read a lot about epilepsy seizures on especially dealing, you know, we're back to keto is basically a metabolic, you know, therapy that we're back to targeting the root cause of most of these dis dysfunctions, which is back to cellular energy basically back to the Mitochondria. Okay. Mitochondrial dysfunction and, and all chronic illnesses, including the, the, the seizure issue and in, you know, and it's exciting about, you know, Ketogenic Diet, you might want to call or therapy. It's been around since 1920 or 21. John Hopkins, uh, started this therapy for seizure control. And so, thanks. This has been around a hundred years and it's exciting because obviously it's been around that long and there is a hundred year track record with the Ketogenic Diet as, as far as for procedure control. And it was kind of the only avenue then, then, and then in the forties or 50s, the antiseizure medications started coming on board. And then this keto therapy basically just got pushed back, you know, as an alternative type of method. And so a lot of doctors and neurologists just got away from it. So they started going down the medication route because it was working. There are certain people that do respond to a first or second type of, of medication, uh, for seizure control. But I think if I remember correctly, um, that usually most neurologists, doctors, we'll go one, two, maybe up to three meds. And if nothing's working at that point, then there's, what else can they do? All right. So a lot of them will say, Hey, let's, let's try the last try. We'll go with the ketogenic therapy or of course, as you're in a situation of, uh, of surgery.
Eric: 04:01 So I, I feel for you, I really have an interest in epilepsy, uh, with, with any brain dysfunction basically. Um, but I, I don't have any clients that have a seizure issues, so I Kinda got sidetracked along the way into more diabetes and heart condition and everything else. And I, I kind of not ignore it or I just, you know, kind of lost my, my, um, passion for it. But, but I, I appreciate the question and, and, and basically you have a choice to say, hey, what's, you know, what, what, what can I, what's my alternative? And I, of course, you know, I'm not a doctor, but you know, you have, I think there's four Ketogenic, um, basically four types of Ketogenic, um, diets. You have the, the, the classical one, which is ketogenic diet. Okay. That's the original. Then we have what we call the MCT at the mid chain triglyceride. I'm going on memory here. That's another therapy. Then we have the low glycemic one, that's an index treatment type thing. And then we have Matt and bots. Um, that's a modified Atkins diet. So that's what that is. And, and what it was, it basically, you know, traditionally ketogenic pretty tough in the beginning years. I mean it was pretty, you know, there was different drinks that you had to do and it was really tough to get people to make a sustainable, especially kids. And you're dealing with kids, you know, with, with, with seizures. So basically these other alternatives have been kind of adaptive kind of to make it a little more sustainable for people that really have a hard time with nutrition and diets. And so the, the modified Atkins and the research that I've done in the past and into it, it's basically there's, you know, uh, you can have kind of all the protein that you want, so you're really not calorie restricted because you can increase your protein as long as you keep your carbs down. And as far as, um, responding, uh, I would say that the, the m a d, um, I call it the modified ketogenic. I don't know the attached Atkins to it because of the protein probably. But, um, statistically a, everything in what I understand in an epilepsy is you're trying to get a above 50% reduction in the seizures. Okay. And very successful with those that don't respond to meds on the cute agentic diet has done that. And there's so many clinical studies and research papers over this last hundred years, uh, to show the efficacy of the ketogenic diet for seizures. But with the mad, uh, I think back in the early 2000 John Hopkins did some studies with patients and they had, I think there was a six or eight patient type study and I think they had even a few of those had an up to a 90% reduction rate in their seizures.
Eric: 07:18 And then a couple of them came seizure free. They've done it with, with children in those studies. They've done it with adults and basically overall if they can get you above a 50% reduction in seizures, which they have proven that. And overall most people 30 to 60% success rate. So, um, I, yeah, I hope I can answer. Somebody would go and I, I, I feel for you, I can't really relate because I don't, I, I don't have experience, but I would definitely just from my opinion, risk is definitely give the, the Qt agentic therapy, uh, I call it therapy because it's amazing what this Beta hydroxybutyrate molecule can do. And we're all talking about, and I'm not sure if if, if you're epilepsy's from like a glute one, a deficiency or even maybe a [inaudible] dehydrogenase deficiency. There's other genetic factors. There's a, I think I remember Rett Syndrome and some other driving syndrome, some other syndromes it genetically, so I'm not sure, uh, on, on, on your epilepsy, but it's all about seizures and seizure control. And I definitely read, and I'm not sure if you've been Keto you've tried Keto or this is, you know, with the, the mad might be something different that you're doing, but I'd definitely entertain it cause I, I do a lot of study on the metabolic, uh, therapeutic effects of the keto of Ketosis and I'm amazed by it they would have, can do in the brain, just, just amazed by it.
Chad: 08:58 Yeah, it's pretty incredible. I mean, from our perspective, Eric, it sounds like obviously you, you know, a lot more than I do, but you and I were just kind of going off of anecdotal things that we've heard or read or seen a about the relationship between seizures and keto. Even in the magic pill. The documentary that's on Netflix is there's, um, there's a little girl, I believe, right? That what's epileptic and I'm going on the ketogenic diet or, or, or changing her diet to a ketogenic diet really helped with the seizures significantly.
Eric: 09:33 And if you, I don't know if you've ever seen it's, I think it was, it was called first do no harm as late nineties. It was Meryl Streep and it was, um, basically a little boy named Charlie and, you know, had seizures. And so the mother in this, the whole story about how the mother just went into research because the doctors couldn't do anything. Medications weren't working for their two, three year old boy and the ants, a whole movie about that. And this woman discovered the ketogenic therapy through her studies. So they eventually went and the child started the uh, uh, nothing. They've given up everything for this child and all of a sudden the story goes that, uh, and it's true. I mean there's the Charlie Foundation, they'll, the boy's name is Charlie. This is a big, you know, kind of a big catalyst for the ketogenic reawakening for, for seizures. And you know, the, the boy instantly, I mean, he went on the ketogenic diet and I think he was like, have a 90 to a hundred seizures a day. He went down to zero on the ketogenic, uh, therapy. Uh, so they were amazed by it and ended up, um, Charlie foundation was created back in the late nineties or something. And now it's been around 20 years and they do just more research and, and everything else too, to let people know parent parents especially that there is an alternative to look at. And not everybody responds to the ketogenic therapy and not everyone responds to medications. So it's definitely something that can work hand in hand. And I think more neurologists or grasping this, but know that if you, if you haven't seen that movie with Meryl Streep, it's, I remember seeing it back in the late nineties and I, and I was always into the brain a little bit and it was, it was just fantastic. It really is great show. I love Meryl Streep in, it sounds like an interesting story. If I remember correctly, she was so intrigued by this and impressed by it that she didn't take any, if I remember, she didn't take any, any, uh, money for, for her performance in this at all. Interesting. And that's pretty cool. That's cool.
Chad: 11:48 Um, risky. I mean if you're listening to this, we, and you do end up giving it a try, we'd love a follow up. That would be yeah. Really, really fascinating and interesting and we, we hope it works. We hope you figure it out. That sounds amazing. Um, as an alternative to brain surgery for sure.
Eric: 12:07 Yeah, I'd like to really hear back risky with you cause then you know, and I'll even start getting back into some of my research into it cause I really found it fascinating the study of, of seizures and I um, would be, that'd be a good motivator for me to, and maybe we'll do a podcast on it cause you, yeah, it'd be Kinda nice to do. Sorry, this is a supplementary question so I can't go too long. So Chad will cut me off.
Chad: 12:31 You're done. We'll do it. We'll do it like the Oscars and just start playing music when you're, when it goes too long. Yes, that's true. All right, well thanks for bio hacking with us today, Eric Ubit. I don't think all of you for joining us on this quest for optimal fitness. If you're ready to begin your own journey and live your life in Ketosis, be sure to check out biofitcoaching.com or biofit coaching on Instagram, the handle's @keto.biohacker. And until next time, stay keto.